Four

Among the jinn there were those that didn't chose sides. For those that didn't, hiding out almost became essential, and for those that did decide they weren't totally on the same page with God(Allah), they ended up enslaved by Solomon.

As I understand it, and some of this [i]is[/i] from angelics I know elsewhere, with the remainder being from various texts, some of the indecisive angels ended up being turned into djinn. Then again, Iblis/Azazel/Lucifer supposedly suffered the same fate, although I don't think of him as being the embodiment of evil that he's typically given "credit" for being. For that matter, his very name means light-bringer, and most of the bad wrap stems from associations with that term being given to a King of Babylon in Isaiah. In Peter, the same name refers to the Morning Star, and in Revelation Jesus refers to himself by the title Morning Star.

How would this be possible? Well, if you believe the Johannites, Jesus was never the messiah and snatched the position away from the person the title should have belonged to, John the Baptist. This would explain accounts of Salome receiving John's head, the fact Herod was scared of John (but never mentions being so of Jesus), and John's repeated uncertainty about Jesus being "The One". It also helps explain why a man supposedly without sin, would need to be baptized by another man. In that time period, receiving baptism was the equivalent of entering into being a follower of that particular leader, which would have Jesus becoming a follower of John. 

But so, if Jesus usurped the position, he could be doing one of at least two things: accosting John's ministry, and his bringing John's flock into being his own or pulling a Sophia-doing something that would seem odd to us (being the bad guy), in order to bring about the maturity of civilization, in order that it might eventually recognize the duality of the divine. While it would be nice to believe the latter, I tend to lean toward it being a case of the former. Based on other information, it seems like Jesus had a political agenda, and needed to reinforce his numbers somehow. This would give a reason for the fish and loaves gathering, which we are given to understand, only included men.

Three

Something occurred to me a few days ago, but I haven't had time to sit down and really flesh it all out. At the most basic level, I just wanted to point out that in many cultures around the world (albeit mostly in North Africa and the Middle East), djinn are seen as still existing. They're not only beings of the past, and events as late as the mid 2000s have included hospital, police, and therapist records from individuals that believed djinn are always around, and very active. I just thought it was important that I bring that up, because I think it also influences my own perspective on the concept of death and the afterlife, not to mention what may happen at the end (i.e. possible ascension).

Two: Part II

I suppose it would be possible for angels to not have free will, and still end up having a revolt, if God wanted them to have one for some reason. I tend to follow a lot that is in apocryphal writings, especially the ones that were extant for a long period, and then suddenly tossed out after the Council decided something in them was heresy. I mean, there are multiple versions of Genesis in the existing Bible, and it's described that God originally told Adam and Eve that he would kill them if they ate from the tree. Kill them. The serpent had them eat so they could have knowledge, and explained that God wanted to hoard it for himself. God relented after the eating, and just threw them out. But if God had allowed them to remain, mankind would never expand its experience, and sometimes that is more important than knowledge (as it ends up creating a knowledge all its own). So perhaps he was doing the same with angels. Give them some rope, and see if they hang themselves. Otherwise, if God didn't want them to exercise free will, then they couldn't (assuming God was all-powerful).

As for Solomon, whose better good? He enslaved a race of beings in order to build a temple, to honor a deity, that gave him the ring that allowed him to enslave the race for that single purpose. And why were they enslaved? Because they didn't want to just build it for him; they wanted to exercise their free will. It's too much like the serpent incident, and hence, why I typically believe of a egoistic demiurge. Then, once the temple was built, he went on to use them for his other projects (such as the harem). The twisted thing is, one of his wives was believed to have been the offspring of a human and a djinn.

What happened to the djinn? Well, I tend to think that some of them are still off in the desert, or their otherwise allocated location for their type, doing their own thing. 

Two: Part I

The idea of the djinn pre-dates Islam, but that is where most of the source material available comes from right now. God created angels and djinn (presumably at about the same time), with angels going to heaven, and djinn going to earth. The explanation in the Qur'an is that one angel later rebelled, and was turned into a djinn, becoming one of the problem ring leaders of his new group. No explanation is given on how it was physically possible, nor is it explained how an angel (which in Islam do not have free will, unlike the djinn), managed to rebel. 

Muhammad said that was how it was, and no questioned it. Then again, Muhammad thought he was inspired by a djinn, not God, and it was his family and friends that convinced him otherwise, struggling for power control after he died. It was in their best interest not to question the man, however much his ideas might run contradictory to one another. 

I've looked at images of Mt. Hermon, which is currently best known for its skiing, while I remember a place that is sandy and arid, with not much vegetation except on the fringes. There were sandy pillars covered in writing, and the whole thing was on a platform that balanced itself (not unlike the one that shows up in the second National Treasure movie). From that platform, we could see the world below, but it took going down to humans for us to interact and we were often disinclined to do so. I've scoured over images of alphabets and languages as well, with what I remember being somewhere between cuneiform and extremely basic heiroglyphics.
Last, but not least, my memories oh my own physicality don't match up with those of the others here. I don't recall having six wings, just two, and I distinctly recall being a large feline around humanoids that were closer to what we'd consider Nephilim than Seraphim. The djinn are one of only three groups said to take on that kind of feline, winged form. 

Now, the only other human life I recall having, that man could easily have passed for an angel taking on a human form. He had long red hair, was tall (about 6' 4"), muscled, very pale (redhead, you know), but he had the same eye color I do (amber). He was a soldier, but I sometimes suspect my memories of the actual war were just the present-me placing him in a context I understand (the American Revolution).

One

This is a repost from its original placement on my web site. There were so many memories, and conversations entailing those memories, that I wanted to be able to place them in a central location with a blog type format.

Though most sources credit jinn as having been created by God (Allah), one has to remember that the victors write the histories, and Arabia is not the place it once was. Djinn are shifters, and typically prefer to become large cats (often black), snakes or dogs (although they can take whatever form they choose). "Beth Fasi'el near Palmyra pays tribute to the "Ginnaye", the "good and rewarding gods"[6] providing a sharp resemblance to the Latin Genius and Juno: The Guardian Spirits. The social organization of the jinn community resembles that of humans - such as they have kings, courts of law, weddings, and mourning rituals.[17]" (Wiki)

Djinn are known to whisper a great deal, possess black wings in their form most often seen by humans, and were originally formed of fire or smoke. By the time of Islam, they were viewed as primarily malicious, although modern sources concede that they may be either "good" or "bad" because of the free will component, and they follow human pantheons that interest them (i.e. not always God). They are connected to the concept of fate, and Iblis, the being that refused to submit to Adam. Sound familiar? Yes, Shatain, i.e. Satan. Which means there is a connection to Azazel as well, although it's debatable if it's the same Azazel we know here. [By here, I meant The Shadow of the Fallen Forum where I first wrote this.]

On a more personal level, jinn's likes and dislikes:

Likes
warm climates (yes)
dark locations (yes)
scents: patchouli and dark cherry (Nox requested this, but I'd never heard of it)
colors: black, gray, purple
plants: honeysuckle, lavender (I'm allergic), plumeria, sage (The other plant to which I'm allergic)

Dislikes
salt (yes)
iron and steel (Iron stinks, and I'm allergic to steel)

Intro

 This was my original introduction on The Shadow of the Fallen Forum. It was dated Feb. 5th, 2010, so I placed it as that date on this blog.

Just posting an intro here to say hello to all, and give you some sense of why I'm here. The concept of being different, as with most of you I can see, is one I've been dealing with since childhood. It just took me a couple of decades beyond that to figure out why.

I suppose you can say the 'awakening' began in 2003, though certain things had been leading up to it. It was a tough time on an emotional scale, and since I tend to be a very detached person most of the time, it made it worse. Enter a group of dark, mainly winged members of a family that used the names of several Greek deities (or more precisely human emotion embodiments). The name Fate is one I've been using since 1999, and while I knew the Fates themselves were Greek, it turned out that they were part of that same family group in the Hellenic pantheon (children of Nyx).

I'm a weird pagan amalgamation. I've honored Mary as the Goddess since childhood, but was not raised in a religious household until I was almost 13, and then Jesus was the "important" one according to my family members (long story). In fourth grade I met Athena, and we've been together ever since, but the other family didn't come along until the aforementioned 2003.

So, here I am. Aware finally that there should be wings back there, something that has been slowly unfolding (please excuse the pun), to my awareness since then. There is more to this, but I suppose it leads me to think that I qualify in the Shadow category, not the Fallen. I do have memories of two previous past lives, however, one not human and one as a human male. I think the human male was supposed to fix whatever I did 'wrong' before, but he didn't so great a job, so here I am again.

Anyway, glad to be here, and looking forward to reading more from everyone.
Best,
Fate

Repost

Article Specs Article ID: 13278 VoxAcct: 179415 Section: words Age Group: Adult Days Up: 731 Times Read: 2,105 RSS Views: 29,061

The Ladies in Gray: The Collyridian Experience

Author: Nightingveil
Posted: May 10th. 2009
Times Viewed: 2,105

As religion seems once again to be at a turning point, a time of very appreciable change, and a remarkable amount of attention is being focused on interspiritual communication, it is time for the Collyridians to make themselves known. We’ve been ever-present, and more than one Pagan author has mentioned how their grandmother or mother made Mary an integral part of their spiritual practice amidst the dictates of their Christian faith. To this day, her role in Catholicism and even some Protestant paths is open for debate, for to many adherents she is Queen of Heaven, the Eternal Virgin, and Mother of All.

This is not meant to be a comprehensive essay on what it means to be a Collyridian (or Philomarianite as we are sometimes called) , but simply an introduction to our beautiful and long-forgotten ways, which may be noted to be not so very different from those in Pagan households. This is true to such an extent that many of us identify as Pagan or ChristoPagan because we are not seen by the Christian community as anything but heretics, or at the least, misguided individuals who need to remember why it’s called the Christian church.

For this reason, I refer to us here as the Ladies in Gray, the majority of our known “members” being female (although not exclusively) . We’re in the liminal space between the Pagan and the Christian worlds, and in more than one way, although as with Pagan sects (Wiccan, Asatru Reconstructionist, etc) and Christian denominations (Catholic, Methodist, Church of Christ) , we each have our own methods of carrying out our beliefs. Some of us even honor deities in these Pagan paths, myself included, making this a very definite alternative path.

No doubt one of the first things that springs to mind, is the question of why Mary is so important? By all accounts, Jesus was the important one in the stories we’ve managed to accumulate, right? I would argue it depends on whom you ask.

In the early stages of the Christian church, it was a motley assortment of hundreds of individual sects, all with their own viewpoints about how things should be done. One of the few things most of them did agree on was the place of women in the church, which at the time, was the same as the place men had in it. They were teachers and leaders, and it took several centuries for that to “change”. I put the word into quotes, because in the background was always the Mother, and her teachers, even if they did not have formal titles.

Following in her footsteps became the approved fashion of behavior, and many women in particular held onto her image as the consummate model for how they should lead their lives. This standard is still held by women all over the world, who look upon her face, and receive serenity in knowing they are holding true to her symbol of not just motherhood, but also as a force of strength during times of extreme adversity.

For in so much as some may wish that women would forget this longing, it is one that has never completely gone away. What is more, it seems to be growing as time goes on.

Accordingly, we are finding one another, and the time is coming when we may very well be a collective group as we were before. Yes, in AD 375 ours was an actual Arabic sect, described by Epiphanius of Salamis in his treatise on heresy entitled the Panarion. While some are skeptical that ever a “cult” existed by this name, because Epihphanius was the sole writer on the topic, others are just as certain that it did, but was suppressed into extinction by the 6th century. And yet, here we are.

To date, every Collyridian I have encountered includes liturgy (whether adapted or self-written) in their spiritual practice, and keeps a defined set of holidays based on those aspects of Mary that most closely speak to them. For my own part, I celebrate twenty-two holidays, though these include the solstices and the equinoxes. The month of May is especially important, the entire month being devoted to Mary, and it is likely not just simple coincidence that the month is named for the Roman goddess of Motherhood and Reverence (Maia or Maiesta) .

This brings me to the topic of what Collyridians share in common with our Pagan brothers and sisters, whether we integrate other Pagan deities into our spirituality or not. The beliefs shared are many, and understanding this is vital to bridging the gap between how we are viewed by those in the Pagan community, and the reality of our practices.

Like so many other goddess-oriented religions, ours includes offerings in its practice, and indeed our very name means “cake eaters” due to the cake and bread offerings made to Mary in those days. Some consider honey to be a suitable component, considering it is the product of bees, and they have long symbolized Mary in her Virginal state. In addition, as Sue Monkk discovered while researching for her novel The Secret Life of Bees, Mary is sometimes referred to as a beehive. Of course, she is not the only goddess to have associations with bees, and in fact arguably the greatest Pagan mother of all is similarly inclined, the Hellenic deity Demeter sharing this association.

Bees are not the only symbol she shares with Pagan deities, and the dove is probably the better known animal association. When the female entity Shekinah was eliminated from the belief system of the Judaic faith, the Holy Ghost was integrated in, its symbol becoming the dove.

Many hold that Mary is the Holy Ghost in the known Trinity as Christians practice, and the dove is therefore her symbol, one that is also indicative of Aphrodite. As the Stella Maris, or Star of the Sea, Mary also shares the association with Aphrodite of being the Goddess of the Oceans. Indeed, Aphrodite is sometimes referred to as Mari, and unfortunately when Christianity became popular, many of Aphrodite’s temples were either torn down to erect ones for Mary or simply overtaken for the same reason.

Perhaps more than any other, Mary is associated with the Goddess Isis, especially in her form as the Black Madonna. Well documented is the borrowing of the posture of Isis with the infant Horus in Egyptian statuary that was used by Christians to represent Mary with the infant Jesus in their own depictions. These representations are numerous, and can be found throughout Europe, though as China Galland discovered on her pilgrimage, no one can truly say why the statues are dark.

Some say it is the result of fire, others that it is their age (despite the fact some were clearly made from dark wood) , and still others feel they are blackish in shade because they represent the Deep Mother, or the Cave Mother, the Eternal Womb of the Earth as it were.

As with Aphrodite, when the Cult of Isis finally ended, temples were adapted for Christian use by Mary’s followers. This did not end the borrowing, however, and Mary owes at least two of her titles to Isis: Queen of Heaven, and Mother of the World.

Sadly, I must confess that even some Pagans are unwilling to address the issue of these associations, feeling that it allows Christianity to encroach too completely on hard-won Pagan freedoms. While I can see their point of view, such behavior means that a division will remain between the two.

Like Pagans and Christians, the majority of Collyridians have shrines and altars as an important part of our spirituality. The images we choose are as varied as our personalities, but for my own part, I combine the two areas and include a small statue of a Black Madonna and a donkey that was the single surviving piece from a childhood nativity scene.

My Pagan statuary is also included on this shrine/altar, and when I work magick it is on this surface that it takes place. I keep my stones here, my candles, and my offering bowl that also acts as a receptacle of ash when I burn paper scraps of intention or perform banishings.

There are those that would denounce this cross-use of materials, but I would then remind them of the Hedge Witch that uses her knife to chop vegetables in the kitchen, not just to perform magick in the circle. In my workplace it isn’t suitable to include a full-fledged shrine, but I have a small card with the Hail Mary on the back of it, the image being of Mary sitting down, her hands spread in invitation, and twelve stars (the apostles/number of signs in the zodiac) encircling her head.

Regarding how Collyridians view the virginity matter, this also varies with the individual. I have met sisters and brothers that were staunchly insistent that Mary was a virgin, and remained one, after the birth of her son.

Others have decided that she may have been a virgin prior, but that his passing from her body effectively ended this state, and that after he was born she acted as a wife in all ways to her husband. I’m of the school of thought that Mary was a Virgin in the sense it was used by the civilizations that pre-dated/were concurrent with early Christianity, and that the term was meant to imply she is independent.

In the Christian mythos, she fulfilled the place ordinarily held by such female deities as a self-sustaining entity without need to rely on a man, which is no doubt why Joseph suddenly falls out of the picture in the New Testament. He had his role in order to make the situation more ethical by Christian standards, but then was unnecessary as Mary and Jesus fill their own roles as Maiden/Mother/Crone and the Sun of God/Self.

As the interspirituality movement gains momentum, I hope to see more Collyridians revealing themselves to those of us that are already present as such in the community or newcomers awakening to their spirituality and seeing ours as a viable form of religious belief that speaks to them.

We have the chance to work toward ending spiritually harmful situations by providing a bridge between the two communities, to aid in healing old wounds created by oppressive dogma, and to provide a spiritual home for those that have too long felt like outsiders.

---

Footnotes:
Begg, Ean. (1997) . The Cult of the Black Virgin. New York, NY: Penguin Classics.

Epiphanius of Salamis. (375) . Panarion (or Against Heresies) .

Panarion Galland, China. (1990) . Longing for Darkness: Tara and the Black Madonna.
New York, NY: Viking Press/Penguin Group.

Monkk, Sue. (2002) . The Secret Life of Bees. New York, NY: Penguin Group.